hadriel | ninth. voice (when the system's wrong, you gotta tear it down).

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ninth. voice (when the system's wrong, you gotta tear it down).

[Mello is all business today - it's Door day, which means new arrivals are likely scanning the network looking for answers, and those who have been here may be looking for signs of those they know who have just arrived. No time like now to make his appeal to his fellow captives.]

We need better documentation. I know this isn't the first time I've said this, and it's maybe even more true now than before - the Null's recent contact with us and the information we've been able to glean from them makes a compelling argument for this, I think.

[He pauses, collecting the words for the rest of what he has to say.]

Frankly, we're not very well organized. We can do better than we have been. What I'm proposing is this: I want to assemble a team to collect and maintain information about our circumstances here - the entities responsible for bringing and keeping us here, their enemies, this war in which we've found ourselves caught in the crossfire. It's not an exaggeration to say that our survival could very well depend on these efforts. Now, I don't care if you have special qualifications or prior experience with this sort of thing - all I ask is that you agree to work as a team, and that if you say you'll do the work, you follow through reliably. If you're new here, familiarize yourselves with the introductory guide and the historical record. Ask questions. Bring us your ideas. If you uncover relevant information, you can contact me, Mello. I'm in the directory, under M.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

The longevity of a general population is not directly equivalent to the longevity of individuals. Even if the total number of people here may remain stable or increase, very few individuals have actually been present for a long time.

[He's thinking logic is the best tactic to take with Marian.]

Perhaps we're interpreting the evidence differently, but the conversations I saw when the Null made their announcement indicated they don't have nearly as much of an advantage as you seem to think. Even if they did, I don't think giving up just because the odds might be against us is the best strategy.

[And he definitely noticed she didn't respond to his last comment.]

Edited 2017-07-11 22:35 (UTC)

[Logic is definitely the route to take, but...]

That's a good point. Regardless of the number here, these parasites have already interacted with countless others, actually increasing the scope of the damage they've caused across multiple worlds.

I didn't say that I'm giving up, or that any of us should. But as things stand now, actively trying to help the parasites is only harming more innocent people.

[That's... Not exactly the point he was trying to make, and he's not even sure what to say about that, so he'll just focus on the next part.]

Although I don't think we know enough yet to say that for sure, you're not necessarily wrong, either.

[He's reserving judgement on that area.]

But even if you're totally right, I don't believe trying to help their enemies is a good choice for any of us.

[That much he's sure of. He'd much rather take 'alive and with a chance' than 'dead and with no hope.'

Maybe they can just play all the warring overlords against each other.]

You can believe whatever you want, and be as useless... or harmful... as the rest of this city.

Being dismissive isn't particularly helpful.

[Just saying.]

Those here will be a lot more interested in listening to your arguments if you're willing to consider theirs.

When someone comes up with one worth listening to that isn't couched in terms of their own personal feelings, let me know.

Everyone's viewpoints and choices are couched in terms of their personal feelings and experiences.

[The unsaid comment of 'even yours' is pretty obvious.]

[Marian sure would be very happy to not have personal feelings, especially after recent events. And experiences...]

If you think I'd rather look to the Null for aid based on feelings, you are completely mistaken, and may want to reconsider your profession.

Let me guess, one of those degrees was in additional social sciences fluff, like philosophy.

Oh, no, I don't think you're interested in aiding the Null based on feelings, but I do think your aggressive and hostile outlook regarding the gods is very much based on them.

[If they're gonna go there, he'll really go there.]

And your guess is wrong, by the way, as well as completely unrelated to what we're talking about.

It seems related to me, considering this discussion of viewpoints and choices has taken a turn towards pointless consideration of details that have little to do with the actual realities at hand.

As you can clearly see from the other conversations [that you butted into, thank you], some people have no respect for rational behavior. It's not my job to change their mind, but I'm not going to let them ignore the facts, either.

I could explain how that isn't true, but that's not why you asked so I don't see the need.

[He's very sure it had been more a jab at his qualifications than anything else, mostly because he gets that a lot.

Also, fortunately this entire conversation is just voice, because he can roll his eyes a lot and in a very childish manner and no one can call him out on it.]

It isn't a matter of rational versus irrational behavior; it's a matter of different rational interpretations. Even in the hard sciences people don't always agree, whether or not they're being purely logical.

But I'm pretty sure you know all of this.

[And again, it's more about an emotional reaction to being disagreed with.]

That's correct. In the end, however, once there's thorough experimentation and data collection.... someone's interpretation is objectively wrong.

[If not everybody's. But let's realllllly not dig too deep on that one, because for all the things she's been right on in her life, there was one that was very very horribly wrong... better to focus on other things, here.]

This is just more wishy-washy hand waving like your 'different people have different responses to injustices', in the end.

Or it's preferring not to make a decision without having all the information.

[But he's beginning to lose any interest in arguing with her over this, both because he doesn't think she's listening and because he feels like his own part in this is becoming childish and defensive, and that means he should back off.]

All I'm saying is not to be so certain you're right that you refuse to consider otherwise.

... [Marian feels like she's already been over it enough. If there's another reasonable option (and destroying the parasites is the only reasonable option so far) she'll listen. Until then...]

Mello's right about one thing. We do need to collect more complete and detailed information. Unfortunately, I don't trust that it'll be complete or openly available, considering the level of detail in his existing files.

Edited 2017-07-12 00:56 (UTC)

Is there a reason you're not compiling and sharing information yourself, if you're concerned about the availability?

[He doesn't say it judgmentally, despite the previous tone of their conversation, just sounding interested.]

I have my own projects to work on... in those brief intervals of peace between parasite-induced interruptions.

[He wants to say that everyone does, but that won't be helpful; instead he's silent a moment before speaking again.]

Are you concerned enough about the effects of the lack of information that it's more important to you that your other projects? Or is it not that serious of an issue?

[Either priority-wise, or the actual amount of availability or lack-there-of.]

Anything about the Door may be useful. Alphys and I are attempting to locate it.

[She hasn't exactly made a secret of it before, but given the way things are heading, she's a little bit less sure about sharing that on the network. But too late now.]

[...Huh.]

I did talk to Sorrow briefly about it, although it's impossible to say if he was being truthful or not.

Do you think it's a physical thing you can find?

From what the parasites have said indirectly, it exists in a physical location within the city. [Because frankly she trusts what they've implied or accidentally mentioned in passing more than any outright replies to questions.] What exactly it is... I don't think anyone can speculate on that yet. However, I'm not entirely unfamiliar with the concepts involved.

In the city, or in Hadriel in general?

[His implication is probably pretty clear; hiding the Door in the confusing and dangerous caves seems like the most logical idea. Although--]

I presume you've already concentrated some efforts on the arena.

[Since that's the other logical choice, considering it's where people show up.]

In the city. [Her first thought had been the tunnels too, to be fair.] Unfortunately, it's also been implied that they can move it from place to place, so it's unlikely to be a static location, which makes it even more important to have a reliable way to find it.

I've documented the arena when it's not... busy... but nothing obvious has come up so far.

[He nods, although she can't see it, thinking for a few seconds about all of that.]

Is it just you and Alphys working on locating it?

It seems like there's a marked preference by the Door to select individuals with dramatically less than average technical expertise.

[Which she feels is putting it mildly, from the disdain in her voice.]

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

ninth. voice (when the system's wrong, you gotta tear it down).

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((playing a time traveller means never worrying too much about thread continuity oddities))

((that's always useful!))

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