hadriel | 014 [Video] /dated to a few hours after Yusuke's anon post

[Lance looks a little over life at the moment, which most of his friends probably recognize as his standard look when not being purposefully professional. He's not bothering with the latter right now, both because he's a bit annoyed and because he thinks it would be pointless, so instead everyone gets normal, slightly bitchy Lance.]

Okay, I wish I could say that I can't believe I have to remind people of this, but vigilante justice is not exactly the best idea here. Not only is it morally wrong to just declare yourself to have the authority to decide who is and isn't deserving of 'justice', but it's logically wrong too; you're just going to cause problems, not solve them.

I'm not saying not to intervene when something's actively happening, but going after someone days or weeks later is just starting the whole process of retaliation all over again. So can everyone just take their egos down a notch and, if they're concerned about someone being an active threat or something, work on coming up with some sort of solution that isn't going to make things worse as soon as it's done?

[This is not the first time he's had to go into this discussion while here--or at home--and so that's why he's being extra short about it. He's also not just talking about the recent incident, it's simply what prompted him to say something this time.]

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( But that would require a vastly different population. )

Point taken.

( But all snarking aside... )

Anyone got half an idea what to do about this?

( Because she's been here a long time and it's still... well. )

There are a few plans going around, but unfortunately we just won't know for sure if they'll work until we can try them.

[Which is always the worst.]

Don't know how long we'd need to try them for, either. Or how long we've got.

( Sure, they could implement a legal system, but how long would that take? How many people would fight the very suggestion of it? How fucked are they if someone working on that is dragged back out?

And what if they do all of it only to have the Null, the Door, anything else interrupt it? )

No one ever really knows any of that, but it's still worth the attempt.

[Especially when it's hard to get worse than the current 'solution'.]

Edited 2018-10-29 23:16 (UTC)

Could mean never having this discussion again.

( And what if you only have 59 reasons to say I told you so rather than 60, Lance? )

I would love to never have this discussion again. At least no one's thrown any bladed weapons at me, so it's already an improvement from last time.

[He's totally sure he could find more reasons; no one here is giving him any shortage of dumb things to criticize, after all. Including himself.]

( She could pretend she's surprised by that but it sounds about right for this place. )

Good way to prove you're not violent.

( Is it hypocritical for her to call that sort of behaviour out? Most likely. But Kate's never been anything but a hypocrite. )

[It's okay they're all hypocrites in some way or another here.]

What it is, I'm taking it as a good sign.

( Most likely. )

That whoever did this hasn't attacked you?

( It's probably smart to lay low after it all, but she wonders nevertheless: where is the perpetrator? )

Well, yeah, but mostly I'm trying to take it as a sign that people are thinking more than just acting on whatever emotion they're feeling at the time.

[He's not... Hoping all that much, but still.]

Sounded pretty targeted.

( Judging by the message, anyway. )

The reminder in general? Yeah, I mean it was directed at our local demon-freezer, but it's not like they're the only person here who's been interested in late vengeance disguised as justice.

[So it was sort of targeted, but not limited to that target by any means. It was definitely meant for everyone.]

Meant their message. "Caedra won't bother people" or whatever it was. Sounded like they only cared about that, not just getting off to violence.

Probably were thinking, in that case.

[Oh that, that makes sense, although he doesn't necessarily agree--]

People come up with all sorts of reasons to justify their actions to themselves. I'm not saying that protecting people wasn't genuinely their intention, but if it was they didn't really think things out very well because they'd probably done the opposite.

It is a really convenient way to excuse their choices, though.

[And he's seen this a lot with vigilante types; they're really just about the power trip, and the claims of protecting people or making the world a better place are just justifications after the fact.]

( She's not disagreeing there. Though Kate's managed to avoid the chaos and murder spread through the city by Caedra, it seems like the mot basic of things to assume that someone wantonly murdering others will not respond well to something like this.

But not thinking things through isn't a condition unique to whoever caused this debate. )

Brings us back to the original argument, doesn't it? How do you keep people in line if you're not going to create laws?

( In this case, both the perpetrator and the... uh, iceblock? It's hard to really think of Caedra as a victim if the things people have said about her are true. )

Laws put consequences for behavior into place, but consequences aren't the only option for convincing someone not to do something.

[He is a psychologist, after all, so positive reinforcement is always an option. But as far as consequences go, there are also plenty that can be done individually that don't require laws.]

So what is there?

( Consequences don't stop everything — and wouldn't she know that — but they are a rather effective deterrent in most cases. )

There's positive reinforcement, and there's also withdrawing attention. On the consequences side, there are also social options that don't have to do with laws.

Edited 2018-11-19 01:39 (UTC)

( Not for nothing, but she's pretty sure no one's about to start blanking murder, especially those of their friends. )

Social options like...?

[He's thinking a little more drastic and manipulative than that, but it's probably for the best that he doesn't explain that.]

Refusing to help her with projects, ignoring her posts to the network, not serving her alcohol, etc. There are a lot of ways to just make it not worth it to her to cause problems, especially if she's acting out of boredom.

( Kate wrinkles her nose as she reads that. Is it truly a good answer to the problem? )

Could make it escalate.

( If she isn't given anything to do, what's to stop her from doing worse to get attention, or simply because she's bored? )

Is it more or less likely than antagonizing her through violence?

[He's pretty sure it's far less; it's pretty much a done deal that there's going to be retaliation for this, after all.]

Edited (same icon twice in a row can't deal had to change it) 2018-12-03 17:25 (UTC)

Never said it was worse than that.

( Hadriel's unique circumstances make it difficult, at best, to exact any sort of effective punishments, though. )

Then I'd rather try something new, even if it's a long shot, than keep doing something we know doesn't work.

Can't be worse than what we've got now.

( AKA nothing. But it's going to be an uphill struggle whatever the decision. )

014 [Video] /dated to a few hours after Yusuke's anon post

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